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	<title>Comments on: On Calls to Revoke LDS&#039; Tax-Exempt Status</title>
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	<link>http://www.kipesquire.net/2008/11/on-calls-to-revoke-lds-tax-exempt-status/</link>
	<description>A Stitch in Time Saves Nine ... But Haste Makes Waste</description>
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		<title>By: The Mormons Underwrote a Lot of Non-Money Contributions and Didn't Report Them &#124; Brief Episode</title>
		<link>http://www.kipesquire.net/2008/11/on-calls-to-revoke-lds-tax-exempt-status/comment-page-1/#comment-7912</link>
		<dc:creator>The Mormons Underwrote a Lot of Non-Money Contributions and Didn't Report Them &#124; Brief Episode</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 20:23:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kipesquire.net/?p=7150#comment-7912</guid>
		<description>[...] KipEsquire has written about the chances and likelihood of getting the Mormons on the IRS: &#8230;the Internal Revenue [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] KipEsquire has written about the chances and likelihood of getting the Mormons on the IRS: &#8230;the Internal Revenue [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Chuck</title>
		<link>http://www.kipesquire.net/2008/11/on-calls-to-revoke-lds-tax-exempt-status/comment-page-1/#comment-7904</link>
		<dc:creator>Chuck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 04:44:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kipesquire.net/?p=7150#comment-7904</guid>
		<description>Fred Karger at Californians Against Hate seems to have put together a pretty good case documenting the official church&#039;s contributions to the Yes on 8 effort.   

http://californiansagainsthate.blogspot.com/2008/11/sworn-complaint-filed-against-mormon.html

While I agree the effort to revoke their tax status is probably futile politically, I&#039;d still like to see the church&#039;s activities publicly documented so that this myth they&#039;ve circulated about how it was all individual contributions can be stamped out once and for all.  Even those who merely tithed contributed (indirectly) to the Yes on 8 campaign.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fred Karger at Californians Against Hate seems to have put together a pretty good case documenting the official church's contributions to the Yes on 8 effort.   </p>
<p><a href="http://californiansagainsthate.blogspot.com/2008/11/sworn-complaint-filed-against-mormon.html" rel="nofollow">http://californiansagainsthate.blogspot.com/2008/11/sworn-complaint-filed-against-mormon.html</a></p>
<p>While I agree the effort to revoke their tax status is probably futile politically, I'd still like to see the church's activities publicly documented so that this myth they've circulated about how it was all individual contributions can be stamped out once and for all.  Even those who merely tithed contributed (indirectly) to the Yes on 8 campaign.</p>
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		<title>By: J. Philip Faranda</title>
		<link>http://www.kipesquire.net/2008/11/on-calls-to-revoke-lds-tax-exempt-status/comment-page-1/#comment-7856</link>
		<dc:creator>J. Philip Faranda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Nov 2008 14:54:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kipesquire.net/?p=7150#comment-7856</guid>
		<description>Kip I see more than a little inconsistency in that &quot;Fighter of H8&quot; moniker and the characterizations that you make of those with whom you disagree.  

While this is not a benign difference in opinion between you and  Mormons, Scouting, Catholics, etc and really is addressing oppression, two wrongs don&#039;t make a right (pun unintentional but interesting). 

There are those within these entities that dissent from orthodoxy. Scouting for All is a good one worth knowing about. There are lots of Catholics who deplore the Church&#039;s stance on gay people (and take shit for it). Change often comes from within, and those inside who side with you are people worth engaging.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kip I see more than a little inconsistency in that "Fighter of H8" moniker and the characterizations that you make of those with whom you disagree.  </p>
<p>While this is not a benign difference in opinion between you and  Mormons, Scouting, Catholics, etc and really is addressing oppression, two wrongs don't make a right (pun unintentional but interesting). </p>
<p>There are those within these entities that dissent from orthodoxy. Scouting for All is a good one worth knowing about. There are lots of Catholics who deplore the Church's stance on gay people (and take shit for it). Change often comes from within, and those inside who side with you are people worth engaging.</p>
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		<title>By: Rev Wright</title>
		<link>http://www.kipesquire.net/2008/11/on-calls-to-revoke-lds-tax-exempt-status/comment-page-1/#comment-7853</link>
		<dc:creator>Rev Wright</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Nov 2008 05:37:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kipesquire.net/?p=7150#comment-7853</guid>
		<description>A Gay Man from The Daily Kos says...

There is no chance in hell that the IRS will even seriously consider stripping the Mormon church of its tax-exempt status.  In order to strip the church&#039;s 501(c)(3) status, it would have to be shown that a &quot;substantial part&quot; of the Mormon church, as a whole, is devoted to influencing legislation.  By any measure, the church&#039;s involvement here is not a &quot;substantial part&quot; of the church&#039;s overall operations.  For example, courts have held that when less than 5 percent of an organization&#039;s activities are devoted to lobbying, it is presumptively not a &quot;substantial part.&quot;  Seasongood v. Commissioner, 227 F.2d 907.  Does anyone really think that the Mormon church devoted more than 5 percent of its global activities to influencing Prop 8?  

Legal arguments aside, any progressive should be repulsed by the ultimate goal of the campaign to strip the Mormon church of its tax-exempt status.  After all, its not the tax-exempt status that we&#039;re after.  The goal here is to stifle the right of religious groups to speak (and act) as they choose.  I am as disgusted as anyone about what the church said about my community and my marriage to Brian.   But are we really willing to go so far as to say that they shouldn&#039;t be allowed to speak because we disagree or detest what they have to say?  It is sophomorically cliché, but I will quote Voltaire anyway: &quot;I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.&quot;

Honestly we are not going to strip Rev Wright&#039;s church for helping Obama . . . are we?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A Gay Man from The Daily Kos says&#8230;</p>
<p>There is no chance in hell that the IRS will even seriously consider stripping the Mormon church of its tax-exempt status.  In order to strip the church's 501(c)(3) status, it would have to be shown that a "substantial part" of the Mormon church, as a whole, is devoted to influencing legislation.  By any measure, the church's involvement here is not a "substantial part" of the church's overall operations.  For example, courts have held that when less than 5 percent of an organization's activities are devoted to lobbying, it is presumptively not a "substantial part."  Seasongood v. Commissioner, 227 F.2d 907.  Does anyone really think that the Mormon church devoted more than 5 percent of its global activities to influencing Prop 8?  </p>
<p>Legal arguments aside, any progressive should be repulsed by the ultimate goal of the campaign to strip the Mormon church of its tax-exempt status.  After all, its not the tax-exempt status that we're after.  The goal here is to stifle the right of religious groups to speak (and act) as they choose.  I am as disgusted as anyone about what the church said about my community and my marriage to Brian.   But are we really willing to go so far as to say that they shouldn't be allowed to speak because we disagree or detest what they have to say?  It is sophomorically cliché, but I will quote Voltaire anyway: "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."</p>
<p>Honestly we are not going to strip Rev Wright's church for helping Obama . . . are we?</p>
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		<title>By: Derek M</title>
		<link>http://www.kipesquire.net/2008/11/on-calls-to-revoke-lds-tax-exempt-status/comment-page-1/#comment-7852</link>
		<dc:creator>Derek M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Nov 2008 05:07:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kipesquire.net/?p=7150#comment-7852</guid>
		<description>The LDS church clearly operated as a POLITICAL MACHINE in a well-organized and well-publicized manner.  It SHOULD BE STRIPPED OF IT&#039;S TAX-EXEMPT STATUS.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The LDS church clearly operated as a POLITICAL MACHINE in a well-organized and well-publicized manner.  It SHOULD BE STRIPPED OF IT'S TAX-EXEMPT STATUS.</p>
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		<title>By: Jackson H</title>
		<link>http://www.kipesquire.net/2008/11/on-calls-to-revoke-lds-tax-exempt-status/comment-page-1/#comment-7851</link>
		<dc:creator>Jackson H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Nov 2008 03:11:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kipesquire.net/?p=7150#comment-7851</guid>
		<description>Although I don&#039;t know how asking the IRS to revoke the LDS Church&#039;s tax exempt status will turn out, I personally believe that they made the Prop 8 battle such a substantial part of their activities as to have violated the laws restricting nonprofits&#039; political advocacy. Even if this results in nothing, it still feels good to complain about the #1 proponent of Prop 8.

The Church did, if fact, contribute at least $2000 directly the Yes campaign, and participated in a lot more campaigning activities that you seem to be aware of here. 

If you&#039;re curious about the Church&#039;s other Prop 8 campaigning activities, I&#039;ve made a blog post that details much of it: http://www.civlib.com/2008/11/how-to-file-complaint-asking-irs-to.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Although I don't know how asking the IRS to revoke the LDS Church's tax exempt status will turn out, I personally believe that they made the Prop 8 battle such a substantial part of their activities as to have violated the laws restricting nonprofits' political advocacy. Even if this results in nothing, it still feels good to complain about the #1 proponent of Prop 8.</p>
<p>The Church did, if fact, contribute at least $2000 directly the Yes campaign, and participated in a lot more campaigning activities that you seem to be aware of here. </p>
<p>If you're curious about the Church's other Prop 8 campaigning activities, I've made a blog post that details much of it: <a href="http://www.civlib.com/2008/11/how-to-file-complaint-asking-irs-to.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.civlib.com/2008/11/how-to-file-complaint-asking-irs-to.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Brian Cavner</title>
		<link>http://www.kipesquire.net/2008/11/on-calls-to-revoke-lds-tax-exempt-status/comment-page-1/#comment-7850</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Cavner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Nov 2008 02:53:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kipesquire.net/?p=7150#comment-7850</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve heard from other news sources that the church itself did donate money, and even reference the amount specifically (e.g. http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_10842051 )

Even without this damning fact, its accepted truth (as far as I know) that the LDS church presidency sent a letter to LDS bishops that which was read aloud in all California State LDS Churches that instructs members to &quot;do all you can to support [Proposition 8] by donating of your means and time.&quot; ( http://wikileaks.org/leak/first-presidency-letter-california.pdf/ ).  That strikes me as a not-insubstantial lobbying effort.

Even if the effort fails, I&#039;d certainly prefer the IRS to scrutinize their practices.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I've heard from other news sources that the church itself did donate money, and even reference the amount specifically (e.g. <a href="http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_10842051" rel="nofollow">http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_10842051</a> )</p>
<p>Even without this damning fact, its accepted truth (as far as I know) that the LDS church presidency sent a letter to LDS bishops that which was read aloud in all California State LDS Churches that instructs members to "do all you can to support [Proposition 8] by donating of your means and time." ( <a href="http://wikileaks.org/leak/first-presidency-letter-california.pdf/" rel="nofollow">http://wikileaks.org/leak/first-presidency-letter-california.pdf/</a> ).  That strikes me as a not-insubstantial lobbying effort.</p>
<p>Even if the effort fails, I'd certainly prefer the IRS to scrutinize their practices.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Miller</title>
		<link>http://www.kipesquire.net/2008/11/on-calls-to-revoke-lds-tax-exempt-status/comment-page-1/#comment-7847</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Nov 2008 01:35:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kipesquire.net/?p=7150#comment-7847</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure I agree.

First, the Mormon Church did direct funds in support of Prop 8.

Secondly, they provided resources -- including space and call centers -- for lobbying on a specific piece of legislation.

Third, they DID lobby for a specific piece of legislation in their daily operations.

Fourth, I won&#039;t shed even a small tear if the Mormons are tied up in IRS investigations for the next two years.  Couldn&#039;t happen to a nicer group.

Mean?  Perhaps even unlibertarian?  I guess.  But hey, if the Libertarian Party can nominate Bob F&#039;ing Barr, then I can be uncharitable towards a powerful, well-funded bigot organization.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I'm not sure I agree.</p>
<p>First, the Mormon Church did direct funds in support of Prop 8.</p>
<p>Secondly, they provided resources &#8212; including space and call centers &#8212; for lobbying on a specific piece of legislation.</p>
<p>Third, they DID lobby for a specific piece of legislation in their daily operations.</p>
<p>Fourth, I won't shed even a small tear if the Mormons are tied up in IRS investigations for the next two years.  Couldn't happen to a nicer group.</p>
<p>Mean?  Perhaps even unlibertarian?  I guess.  But hey, if the Libertarian Party can nominate Bob F'ing Barr, then I can be uncharitable towards a powerful, well-funded bigot organization.</p>
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